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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts: Company of Heroes 2.</title>
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	<description>Science, gaming, and all things in between.</description>
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		<title>By: Aleksei Volchok</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/thoughts-company-of-heroes-2/#comment-16043</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aleksei Volchok]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=3598#comment-16043</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry for returning to this, but as you may&#039;ve noticed many Russian gamers were offended by the game judging by steam forums.

I haven&#039;t played the game, only watched cutscenes on Youtube, but I think this reaction is due to what CoH1 was. I remember cutscenes from original campaign: we came to liberate those lands, our guys die from German machine guns but we press on for the sake of freedom and justice. No mentioning of Dresden bombings, no civilians were harmed, only spirit of brotherhood and honor.

In CoH2 cutscenes I see Russian soldiers that don&#039;t want to defend their homeland and fight back unless Soviet machine guns shoot them in the back. As I understood, all civilian casualties were inflicted by retreating Red Army (I don&#039;t quite understand why would you burn your own villages with people in their houses and then kill your own soldiers). Quotes from mission briefings are from Russian generals that don&#039;t understand why are they fighting... in WW1 in Romania. And, of course, quote from Guderian &quot;I screwed it only because winter suddenly happened and Russians sent billions of meatshields on us&quot;. Maybe it&#039;s all accompanied by cutscenes of Russian heroism and YouTube hides it from me, but ending sequence disappoints the most: we&#039;ve captured Reichstag for a photo, all of this was for the sake of some photo.

I&#039;d understood if that would be German campaign: you&#039;re officer that doesn&#039;t quite understands why would you invade some country, kill 13 millions of civilians and lose your soldiers to winter and pointless fights. Russians behave just like they&#039;re invaders, obviously Jewish hero (Lav Abramovich is anecdotal name from Russian jokes about Jews) isn&#039;t reminded that he fights for survival of his country and he personally would end up in Auschwitz if Germans win.

Also it&#039;s obvious they didn&#039;t do much research. Every mentioned name sounds Russian, but very funny Russian, almost anecdotal - Isakovich, Churkin etc. They could at least open Wikipedia and get some Russians from there. 

In any case, I&#039;m ashamed of Russian gamers&#039; reaction too. Argh.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for returning to this, but as you may&#8217;ve noticed many Russian gamers were offended by the game judging by steam forums.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t played the game, only watched cutscenes on Youtube, but I think this reaction is due to what CoH1 was. I remember cutscenes from original campaign: we came to liberate those lands, our guys die from German machine guns but we press on for the sake of freedom and justice. No mentioning of Dresden bombings, no civilians were harmed, only spirit of brotherhood and honor.</p>
<p>In CoH2 cutscenes I see Russian soldiers that don&#8217;t want to defend their homeland and fight back unless Soviet machine guns shoot them in the back. As I understood, all civilian casualties were inflicted by retreating Red Army (I don&#8217;t quite understand why would you burn your own villages with people in their houses and then kill your own soldiers). Quotes from mission briefings are from Russian generals that don&#8217;t understand why are they fighting&#8230; in WW1 in Romania. And, of course, quote from Guderian &#8220;I screwed it only because winter suddenly happened and Russians sent billions of meatshields on us&#8221;. Maybe it&#8217;s all accompanied by cutscenes of Russian heroism and YouTube hides it from me, but ending sequence disappoints the most: we&#8217;ve captured Reichstag for a photo, all of this was for the sake of some photo.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d understood if that would be German campaign: you&#8217;re officer that doesn&#8217;t quite understands why would you invade some country, kill 13 millions of civilians and lose your soldiers to winter and pointless fights. Russians behave just like they&#8217;re invaders, obviously Jewish hero (Lav Abramovich is anecdotal name from Russian jokes about Jews) isn&#8217;t reminded that he fights for survival of his country and he personally would end up in Auschwitz if Germans win.</p>
<p>Also it&#8217;s obvious they didn&#8217;t do much research. Every mentioned name sounds Russian, but very funny Russian, almost anecdotal &#8211; Isakovich, Churkin etc. They could at least open Wikipedia and get some Russians from there. </p>
<p>In any case, I&#8217;m ashamed of Russian gamers&#8217; reaction too. Argh.</p>
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		<title>By: Gap Gen</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/thoughts-company-of-heroes-2/#comment-15954</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gap Gen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jul 2013 08:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=3598#comment-15954</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Right, very few films or games actually get science fiction, and what makes it appealing as a genre beyond a Western with lasers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, very few films or games actually get science fiction, and what makes it appealing as a genre beyond a Western with lasers.</p>
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		<title>By: Zenicetus</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/thoughts-company-of-heroes-2/#comment-15951</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zenicetus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jul 2013 01:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=3598#comment-15951</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the reason that love for Homeworld comes off as crushingly nostalgic, is just that it hit all the right buttons for sci-fi geeks (like me), who had been waiting for something... anything... like this in strategy games that came anywhere close to all the sci-fi books and movies we grew up on. 

Not that the plot or the game mechanics were that good. The 3D tactics, as mentioned elsewhere here, was not as cool in practice as it looked. But nobody else was doing it! 

It just hit all the right buttons for atmosphere and potential for strategy space games. Sadly, the genre hasn&#039;t progressed much, if any, from there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the reason that love for Homeworld comes off as crushingly nostalgic, is just that it hit all the right buttons for sci-fi geeks (like me), who had been waiting for something&#8230; anything&#8230; like this in strategy games that came anywhere close to all the sci-fi books and movies we grew up on. </p>
<p>Not that the plot or the game mechanics were that good. The 3D tactics, as mentioned elsewhere here, was not as cool in practice as it looked. But nobody else was doing it! </p>
<p>It just hit all the right buttons for atmosphere and potential for strategy space games. Sadly, the genre hasn&#8217;t progressed much, if any, from there.</p>
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		<title>By: Gap Gen</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/thoughts-company-of-heroes-2/#comment-15950</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gap Gen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jul 2013 23:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=3598#comment-15950</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am now having flashbacks of being placed opposite Monty in CoH mutliplayer, so thanks for that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am now having flashbacks of being placed opposite Monty in CoH mutliplayer, so thanks for that.</p>
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		<title>By: Gap Gen</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/thoughts-company-of-heroes-2/#comment-15949</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gap Gen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jul 2013 23:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=3598#comment-15949</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am awful at the original Homeworld; the interface is so much more clunky than the sequels. And yet, the setting is great.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am awful at the original Homeworld; the interface is so much more clunky than the sequels. And yet, the setting is great.</p>
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		<title>By: Zenicetus</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/thoughts-company-of-heroes-2/#comment-15947</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zenicetus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jul 2013 20:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=3598#comment-15947</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, those Hollywood war movie images have been around for a lot longer than &quot;Saving Private Ryan,&quot; although maybe that was a stronger influence on the younger generation of game devs. 

I&#039;m thinking of movies like &quot;The Longest Day,&quot; which -- aside from all the cheesy cameos from big stars -- had many scenes that remind me of what we see in CoH and the WW2 CoD games. Saving Private Ryan was basically just the souped-up version of The Longest Day with better effects and better acting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, those Hollywood war movie images have been around for a lot longer than &#8220;Saving Private Ryan,&#8221; although maybe that was a stronger influence on the younger generation of game devs. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m thinking of movies like &#8220;The Longest Day,&#8221; which &#8212; aside from all the cheesy cameos from big stars &#8212; had many scenes that remind me of what we see in CoH and the WW2 CoD games. Saving Private Ryan was basically just the souped-up version of The Longest Day with better effects and better acting.</p>
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		<title>By: Aleksei Volchok</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/thoughts-company-of-heroes-2/#comment-15945</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aleksei Volchok]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jul 2013 17:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=3598#comment-15945</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By the way, I&#039;ve noticed Russian localisation was released the same day as English one and there are reviews already. Google quickly gave me the one titled &quot;Company of Heroes 2: Rereading Goebbels&quot; (in Russian, of course). But it seems that Russians aren&#039;t surprised with it and find the plot very amusing and funny. There are some politicians, bloggers and other public people in Russia who paint USSR in similar colors but most of the populace and other public people do not like them much. So I&#039;ll be surprised if the game sells well in Russia.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, I&#8217;ve noticed Russian localisation was released the same day as English one and there are reviews already. Google quickly gave me the one titled &#8220;Company of Heroes 2: Rereading Goebbels&#8221; (in Russian, of course). But it seems that Russians aren&#8217;t surprised with it and find the plot very amusing and funny. There are some politicians, bloggers and other public people in Russia who paint USSR in similar colors but most of the populace and other public people do not like them much. So I&#8217;ll be surprised if the game sells well in Russia.</p>
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		<title>By: Aleksei Volchok</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/thoughts-company-of-heroes-2/#comment-15944</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aleksei Volchok]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jul 2013 17:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=3598#comment-15944</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My grandparents&#039; parents&#039; leading cause of death was &quot;Nazi came to their village, there were no Jews, but they didn&#039;t go all this way for nothing, did they?&quot; (the one man who was a soldier actually survived and still lives although he lost a leg in a battle), so I find it both stupid and hilarious. CoH had neutral Germans and at least tried to show horrors of war Saving Private Rayan-style, and Eastern front was a perfect place to show two bad (from a Western point of view) superpowers in total war. Ruined lives, pointlessness, that kind of stuff.

I understand Western audience would like to play as someone more European than barbaric commies, hence come the Polish. But they at least could make something like Winter War were it&#039;s more plausible to make USSR evil. They could show German commanders&#039; decision to kill civilians to fight partisan movement, Soviets mobilizing everything to fight much more advanced enemy... Ah, Hollywood, you make everything worse.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My grandparents&#8217; parents&#8217; leading cause of death was &#8220;Nazi came to their village, there were no Jews, but they didn&#8217;t go all this way for nothing, did they?&#8221; (the one man who was a soldier actually survived and still lives although he lost a leg in a battle), so I find it both stupid and hilarious. CoH had neutral Germans and at least tried to show horrors of war Saving Private Rayan-style, and Eastern front was a perfect place to show two bad (from a Western point of view) superpowers in total war. Ruined lives, pointlessness, that kind of stuff.</p>
<p>I understand Western audience would like to play as someone more European than barbaric commies, hence come the Polish. But they at least could make something like Winter War were it&#8217;s more plausible to make USSR evil. They could show German commanders&#8217; decision to kill civilians to fight partisan movement, Soviets mobilizing everything to fight much more advanced enemy&#8230; Ah, Hollywood, you make everything worse.</p>
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		<title>By: Hentzau</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/thoughts-company-of-heroes-2/#comment-15943</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hentzau]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jul 2013 17:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=3598#comment-15943</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, the blocking detachment thing also really annoyed me but it was in Enemy at the Gates, which counts as incontrovertible historical evidence as far as game developers are concerned. I miss the days when developers put reading lists in the back of their manuals. It went a long way towards convincing me they knew something about the period in question and weren&#039;t just cribbing from popular media.

Also, the partisan mission is just one mission where you&#039;re given a bunch of sniper units and the laughable instruction to stay stealthy. Also they&#039;re Polish. Also *SPOILER* they get executed at the end because in this game the Soviet Union is evil, while the Germans are presented in a very neutral way. For a game about the Eastern front this is, quite frankly, an incredibly ridiculous and shallow reading of what actually happened.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, the blocking detachment thing also really annoyed me but it was in Enemy at the Gates, which counts as incontrovertible historical evidence as far as game developers are concerned. I miss the days when developers put reading lists in the back of their manuals. It went a long way towards convincing me they knew something about the period in question and weren&#8217;t just cribbing from popular media.</p>
<p>Also, the partisan mission is just one mission where you&#8217;re given a bunch of sniper units and the laughable instruction to stay stealthy. Also they&#8217;re Polish. Also *SPOILER* they get executed at the end because in this game the Soviet Union is evil, while the Germans are presented in a very neutral way. For a game about the Eastern front this is, quite frankly, an incredibly ridiculous and shallow reading of what actually happened.</p>
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		<title>By: Hentzau</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/thoughts-company-of-heroes-2/#comment-15942</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hentzau]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jul 2013 17:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=3598#comment-15942</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pretty much. It&#039;s kind of a shame because we don&#039;t really have any evidence of what WW2 games would have been like if they&#039;d been made pre-Saving Private Ryan and its infamous Omaha Beach scene*, since that did for the Western Front what Enemy at the Gates did for the Eastern one two years later. Culturally I think those two movies have a lot to answer for, since while their their depiction of combat was unusually gritty they&#039;re still incredibly Hollywood and reduce an entire war down to a single battle, and if there&#039;s one thing games love to to it&#039;s ape popular movies.

*Actually we do. It was called Close Combat, and it was awesome.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pretty much. It&#8217;s kind of a shame because we don&#8217;t really have any evidence of what WW2 games would have been like if they&#8217;d been made pre-Saving Private Ryan and its infamous Omaha Beach scene*, since that did for the Western Front what Enemy at the Gates did for the Eastern one two years later. Culturally I think those two movies have a lot to answer for, since while their their depiction of combat was unusually gritty they&#8217;re still incredibly Hollywood and reduce an entire war down to a single battle, and if there&#8217;s one thing games love to to it&#8217;s ape popular movies.</p>
<p>*Actually we do. It was called Close Combat, and it was awesome.</p>
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