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	<title>Comments on: The Value Of Spaceflight.</title>
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		<title>By: Gap</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/the-value-of-spaceflight/#comment-974</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gap]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2012 00:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=2248#comment-974</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m spectacularly late to the party on this one, but yeah, space travel is a way for the US to project its power further - even if no other nation challenges it into space again (which they will), surveillance is a crucial reason to launch stuff into space (and once you&#039;re there, there might be an argument for mining asteroids or the moon, I don&#039;t know. Mars, could be a while before that turns a profit, but hopefully with a decent orbital industry the costs of a mission there go down). The fact that the US military donated two telescopes that are better than Hubble to NASA recently shows that the US still takes space travel seriously and has a bunch of awesome kit up there that they&#039;re not telling anyone about, even though it isn&#039;t dumping money into crash programs to other planets just yet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m spectacularly late to the party on this one, but yeah, space travel is a way for the US to project its power further &#8211; even if no other nation challenges it into space again (which they will), surveillance is a crucial reason to launch stuff into space (and once you&#8217;re there, there might be an argument for mining asteroids or the moon, I don&#8217;t know. Mars, could be a while before that turns a profit, but hopefully with a decent orbital industry the costs of a mission there go down). The fact that the US military donated two telescopes that are better than Hubble to NASA recently shows that the US still takes space travel seriously and has a bunch of awesome kit up there that they&#8217;re not telling anyone about, even though it isn&#8217;t dumping money into crash programs to other planets just yet.</p>
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		<title>By: innokenti</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/the-value-of-spaceflight/#comment-910</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[innokenti]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=2248#comment-910</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s a great way to get kids interested and inspired. But yeah, I reckon you would be biased, just as if I was doing it I&#039;d be a little biased towards history or something.

But we want kids to be inspired by a lot of other stuff. Because they will get inspired by other stuff, because everyone is different and things are going to stick with or bounce off them in different ways. Yeah, kids want to be cosmonauts, but that&#039;s not the only way for them to dream and be inspired, and not the dominant way either.

I&#039;m not saying we shouldn&#039;t have people get into it all and be inspired by it. But it&#039;s just one facet. Yes, it might seem that it&#039;s the ultimate thing to someone driven passionately by space exploration, but it probably isn&#039;t.

It&#039;s almost certainly awesome though. Just like the many other awesome awesome things.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a great way to get kids interested and inspired. But yeah, I reckon you would be biased, just as if I was doing it I&#8217;d be a little biased towards history or something.</p>
<p>But we want kids to be inspired by a lot of other stuff. Because they will get inspired by other stuff, because everyone is different and things are going to stick with or bounce off them in different ways. Yeah, kids want to be cosmonauts, but that&#8217;s not the only way for them to dream and be inspired, and not the dominant way either.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying we shouldn&#8217;t have people get into it all and be inspired by it. But it&#8217;s just one facet. Yes, it might seem that it&#8217;s the ultimate thing to someone driven passionately by space exploration, but it probably isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s almost certainly awesome though. Just like the many other awesome awesome things.</p>
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		<title>By: innokenti</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/the-value-of-spaceflight/#comment-909</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[innokenti]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 10:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=2248#comment-909</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh I completely agree with basically most of that. But I still don&#039;t think that&#039;s indicative of human ambition and interest. At times the issues are for whatever reason hijacked or lobbied into a particular position. That is a problem, and I think a significant problem of our time. It is not (I would maintain) because that is what we have asked of our governments of our world, nor is it something that is necessarily here to stay.

The situation now is not an indictment of humanity or whatever, just the folly of the time and something that could and should be changed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh I completely agree with basically most of that. But I still don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s indicative of human ambition and interest. At times the issues are for whatever reason hijacked or lobbied into a particular position. That is a problem, and I think a significant problem of our time. It is not (I would maintain) because that is what we have asked of our governments of our world, nor is it something that is necessarily here to stay.</p>
<p>The situation now is not an indictment of humanity or whatever, just the folly of the time and something that could and should be changed.</p>
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		<title>By: Hentzau</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/the-value-of-spaceflight/#comment-907</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hentzau]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 09:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=2248#comment-907</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;(And ultimately coming back to the previous points slightly – Governments not committing to spending big budgets on ambition space flight ventures is not representative of humankind or our interests, ambition or willingness.)&quot;

When they&#039;re instead spending billions on drone technology so that they can kill people by remote control from the safety of a trailer park in Nevada, it kind of is.

That&#039;s the snide answer. The long answer is that we&#039;re also spending lots of money on things like CERN, but I dare you to try and explain why the Higgs Boson is important to a layman. (You will have noticed nearly every single news article that reported on it bending over backwards to try and avoid explaining what it was in anything but the most vague terms possible.) That&#039;s not to say manned space flight is a glorified PR program either, but in so far as a scientific achievement that actually means something to people goes you&#039;d be pretty hard pressed to beat that photo of Buzz Aldrin on the Moon. It&#039;s a really effective way of saying &quot;Yes, this is what we can do now. Just think of where we can go in the future. Just think of where you might be able to take us.&quot;

My point here isn&#039;t that spending money on manned space exploration somehow makes a society inherently better, but that the abandonment of space speaks to a more general malaise and stagnation in society as a whole. Very few things are done these days unless they have a near-immediate economic payoff thanks to rampant capitalism, and even CERN regularly gets asked what exactly it is doing to benefit society. The answer is: lots of stuff, but since it doesn&#039;t have a direct dollar value attached to it it is perceived by society to be something of a waste of money that&#039;s only funded because we have to maintain our credentials as a Western technocracy *somehow*.

Here is a little story for you about how smaller scale university funding works. At my university there were three research groups: Materials, Optics and Astrophysics. Materials and Astrophysics each got half a floor of a building plus some sundry labs. Optics got an entire *building* to itself, as well as the lion&#039;s share of the grant money. Why was this? It was because Optics was researching things that had direct commercial applications (optical coherence tomography amongst other things), whereas Materials and Astrophysics were engaged in research that was a little more blue-sky in its thinking.

So that&#039;s the ballgame. Unless your research will lead to big bucks further down the line, you get a bare minimum of funding -- just enough so that you can be waved around as a prestige item. That&#039;s not an attitude that will take us anywhere useful, and neither is not exploring space because it&#039;s too hard and the moon isn&#039;t literally made of cash money.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;(And ultimately coming back to the previous points slightly – Governments not committing to spending big budgets on ambition space flight ventures is not representative of humankind or our interests, ambition or willingness.)&#8221;</p>
<p>When they&#8217;re instead spending billions on drone technology so that they can kill people by remote control from the safety of a trailer park in Nevada, it kind of is.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the snide answer. The long answer is that we&#8217;re also spending lots of money on things like CERN, but I dare you to try and explain why the Higgs Boson is important to a layman. (You will have noticed nearly every single news article that reported on it bending over backwards to try and avoid explaining what it was in anything but the most vague terms possible.) That&#8217;s not to say manned space flight is a glorified PR program either, but in so far as a scientific achievement that actually means something to people goes you&#8217;d be pretty hard pressed to beat that photo of Buzz Aldrin on the Moon. It&#8217;s a really effective way of saying &#8220;Yes, this is what we can do now. Just think of where we can go in the future. Just think of where you might be able to take us.&#8221;</p>
<p>My point here isn&#8217;t that spending money on manned space exploration somehow makes a society inherently better, but that the abandonment of space speaks to a more general malaise and stagnation in society as a whole. Very few things are done these days unless they have a near-immediate economic payoff thanks to rampant capitalism, and even CERN regularly gets asked what exactly it is doing to benefit society. The answer is: lots of stuff, but since it doesn&#8217;t have a direct dollar value attached to it it is perceived by society to be something of a waste of money that&#8217;s only funded because we have to maintain our credentials as a Western technocracy *somehow*.</p>
<p>Here is a little story for you about how smaller scale university funding works. At my university there were three research groups: Materials, Optics and Astrophysics. Materials and Astrophysics each got half a floor of a building plus some sundry labs. Optics got an entire *building* to itself, as well as the lion&#8217;s share of the grant money. Why was this? It was because Optics was researching things that had direct commercial applications (optical coherence tomography amongst other things), whereas Materials and Astrophysics were engaged in research that was a little more blue-sky in its thinking.</p>
<p>So that&#8217;s the ballgame. Unless your research will lead to big bucks further down the line, you get a bare minimum of funding &#8212; just enough so that you can be waved around as a prestige item. That&#8217;s not an attitude that will take us anywhere useful, and neither is not exploring space because it&#8217;s too hard and the moon isn&#8217;t literally made of cash money.</p>
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		<title>By: Hentzau</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/the-value-of-spaceflight/#comment-906</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hentzau]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 09:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=2248#comment-906</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is actually one of the reasons I was kind of hopeful about the Chinese space program, as the US is the stereotypical rich man who never uses something when he&#039;s got it but cries bloody murder when it gets taken from him. Unfortunately it&#039;s moving very slowly and while it&#039;s possible China could catch up that&#039;s only because the US space program has been in standstill itself for the last thirty-odd years.

(Note: not characterising China as &quot;hostile&quot; here.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is actually one of the reasons I was kind of hopeful about the Chinese space program, as the US is the stereotypical rich man who never uses something when he&#8217;s got it but cries bloody murder when it gets taken from him. Unfortunately it&#8217;s moving very slowly and while it&#8217;s possible China could catch up that&#8217;s only because the US space program has been in standstill itself for the last thirty-odd years.</p>
<p>(Note: not characterising China as &#8220;hostile&#8221; here.)</p>
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		<title>By: Hentzau</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/the-value-of-spaceflight/#comment-905</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hentzau]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 09:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=2248#comment-905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pretty much this, it&#039;s all about hope for the future as far as I&#039;m concerned. Perhaps I&#039;m biased because I do (did?) a lot of work with kids, but they all think they&#039;re going to get the chance to go out and explore the solar system just like I did when I was their age. This forces me to get creative in not telling them that that future has effectively been cancelled in this age of austerity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pretty much this, it&#8217;s all about hope for the future as far as I&#8217;m concerned. Perhaps I&#8217;m biased because I do (did?) a lot of work with kids, but they all think they&#8217;re going to get the chance to go out and explore the solar system just like I did when I was their age. This forces me to get creative in not telling them that that future has effectively been cancelled in this age of austerity.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/the-value-of-spaceflight/#comment-904</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Josh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 06:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=2248#comment-904</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The non-functional benefits of manned spaceflight are huge. You can&#039;t capture a kid&#039;s imagination, and teach it to dream an ambitious future, with DNA or renewable energy in the same way that you can with a footstep on an alien world. It&#039;s the stuff dreams are made of.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The non-functional benefits of manned spaceflight are huge. You can&#8217;t capture a kid&#8217;s imagination, and teach it to dream an ambitious future, with DNA or renewable energy in the same way that you can with a footstep on an alien world. It&#8217;s the stuff dreams are made of.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandplasma</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/the-value-of-spaceflight/#comment-902</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sandplasma]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=2248#comment-902</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It won&#039;t be until we leave the planet that the human race will near guarantee its future existence. We need a hostile country to make plans for a moon base for the U.S to really get going.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It won&#8217;t be until we leave the planet that the human race will near guarantee its future existence. We need a hostile country to make plans for a moon base for the U.S to really get going.</p>
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		<title>By: innokenti</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/the-value-of-spaceflight/#comment-900</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[innokenti]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 14:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=2248#comment-900</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, we&#039;re clearly still doing some interesting and awesome things in that department. This is most definitely a good thing. These things are still happening.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, we&#8217;re clearly still doing some interesting and awesome things in that department. This is most definitely a good thing. These things are still happening.</p>
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		<title>By: Smurf</title>
		<link>https://scientificgamer.com/the-value-of-spaceflight/#comment-899</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Smurf]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 14:17:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scientificgamer.com/?p=2248#comment-899</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes.  yes it is.  I&#039;m glad we agree.

(I think I&#039;m missing your point.  What exactly are you saying with that comment?)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes.  yes it is.  I&#8217;m glad we agree.</p>
<p>(I think I&#8217;m missing your point.  What exactly are you saying with that comment?)</p>
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