Comments on: Diablog: Torchlight 2.

By: Darren

Darren — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:42:14 +0000

I consider it to be the best ARPG I’ve ever played. I can’t really disagree with the criticisms, though; I’d say it’s basically Diablo II with the kinks worked out.

From my perspective, the really damning thing about that statement isn’t that TL2 is essentially 12 years out of date, but that no other game has really stepped up to the plate and delivered this level of quality. Diablo 3 may end up being the new direction of the genre, but if history is any indicator it may take over a decade for a game that delivers the same gameplay minus the weaknesses.

By: Darren

Darren — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:30:58 +0000

One thing that you fail to mention is that most skills automatically improve with your level regardless of whether you drop more points into it. You may be waiting to get to the next level unlock for one or more skills, but your character is still capable of succeeding. Furthermore, all skills are useful for the entire game.

One of the problems with this genre is that skills often become obsolete, which ends up making them feel useless. I agree that TL2 can feel overly punitive if you don’t have a spot-on build, but I think the fact that a good build incorporates skills from the entire breadth of the game is a point in its favor.

By: Josh

Josh — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 10:36:03 +0000

I found Torchlight 1 to be a bit fun in blasts but essentially shallow and lacklustre. But then I also found D3 a chore towards the end. It may just be that my palate has moved away from ARPGs.

By: Hentzau

Hentzau — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 16:17:29 +0000

I thought most of them worked well. Perhaps it’s because I spent most time on my Wizard, though; certain runes for Diamond Armour and Disintegrate really changed things up, and I know the Barbarian runes were somewhat less impressive.

By: jiiiiim

jiiiiim — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 15:14:49 +0000

It’s not a dreadful game, just unimaginative, and if you really liked Torchlight (as Sinny did) then I suspect you will really like Torchlight 2 (as Sinny did). I was conscious that we didn’t want this to just be a moanfest so we got him involved to tell the other side.

By: Josh

Josh — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 15:11:32 +0000

Funny, I hated the rune system in D3. It felt like I was being fobbed off – instead of getting a new skill I was just getting a slightly different animation for an old one, some of which I’d use, most of which I wouldn’t.

It really killed the thrill of discovery for me.

By: Hentzau

Hentzau — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 13:59:28 +0000

I don’t want everything to unlock at a certain point, but I’d also like the ability to direct my skill unlocks somewhat rather than having a specific skill/rune doled at to me at a specific level that I might not even be that interested in. Especially since a lot of the runes are complete game-changers, like the Diamond Skin rune that reduces mana usage. Diablo 3 did a great job of making every single skill interesting and distinct, but I think the progression could do with a lot of work.

By: Zael

Zael — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 13:24:28 +0000

I think Diablo 3 did the carrot on a stick thing extremely well. You had all of the skills unlocked by around level 30 which was about 8-10 hours of gameplay, but then you also had runes to unlock right up to 60.

I know I would have been extremely bored levelling my Monk if I unlocked everything at 30. However, getting all my core stuff early, but still looking ahead towards runes which would enhance that core stuff (enough to change my play style), kept me going right up to 60.

I fell head over heels in love with Diablo 3′s skill system and it has ruined Torchlight 2 for me.

By: innokenti

innokenti — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 13:12:26 +0000

The other thing is that Diablo 3 also took a fairly long time to release all the stuff to you. I mean, I’d happily leave say an epic skill or two towards level 30 or whatever, but I reckon you could be generous and basically unlock almost everything by level 20.

Then I guess you’d have the problem of what to do for levelling up?

Guild Wars 2 is still probably one of the most elegant ways of handling the whole skills/stats issue. There is some tiering/gating, but because half your skills are determined by weapons, you have lots to explore off the bat, and the rest of the skills are gradually added but crucially let you play with a diverse set and choose to mix and match. There are some epic things locked away, but it’s usually a nice extra.

Then the talents, which can be respeced and are also tiered let you swing in whatever direction you want.

By: Hentzau

Hentzau — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 12:04:25 +0000

The skill system is a bit of a disaster, really. At least the last time I played Diablo 2 the optimum builds had already been figured out and I just copied those. Here it’s just “Levelling up gets you a skill point you can invest for 2% more damage! Yay!” Diablo 3 had its own problem where you were waiting to hit a certain level to get a certain skill because they were all fundamentally different, but I’d prefer that to a levelling up system that is so *stingy* with what it will permit you to do.